, since cable is the place where you're going to get, right, left, political conversation, and cnn living in the middle so awkwardly and trying desperately to keep its base, is it doing good things for our democracy in your view? >> no, of course not. is who doing good things? >> the idea of cable television. >> no. >> i feel, quite often, if you eliminated msnbc, fox, and cnn, it would probably improve american democracy overnight. [laughter] things would miraculously get better. people would talk to one another again rather than engage in an artificial fight which is what most cable television is. >> look, you take someone like rachel madou, for example. >> very bright. >> rachel maddow is a very smart woman and could easily in the old days, and today, i would love to see rachel maddow as the anchor of one of the evening news programs on network television. but the price of that would be that she would have to keep her opinions to herself. it is her opinions that draw the viewership on msnbc. now, she is a very bright woman, as i said. but i do not want to know what she thinks about the